#Shaka X Mu

[kosmicpowers]

🐏 Aries Mu Headcanons 🐏

Aka the Best Gold Saint! (Besides Camus)

Basically considers Kiki his son, even lets the boy call him "Daddy" sometimes. Though obviously not when others are around, it would be hard to explain and kinda awkward. (Because of how the word has unfortunately been sexualized.)

One time Mu let Kiki use a computer at Saori's mansion and he read a bunch of gory MLP creepypasta fanfiction. He is not allowed to use the Internet anymore.

Has autism and doesn't like to go out in crowded places, because he easily gets overstimulated.

People also sometimes get angry at him for not understanding jokes or speaking in a monotone voice. That's when Aldebaran comes along to beat them up.

You cannot begin to imagine how many times "Did a cow name you?" Jokes have been thrown at the poor guy.

Asexual, does not like hanging around Milo or Deathmask who are constantly horny.

Mu loves cats! Wishes he could have one but he doesn't have the time. Sometimes Aldebaran will show him cute cat videos and he'll end up giggling and excitedly stimming for hours.

When someone pisses Mu off (which isn't often) he'll use his telekinesis to move around random objects when they aren't watching, just to fuck with them. Some say that Milo still believes in ghosts because of this.

Shion was a very kind and loving father figure out towards Mu, but sadly didn't get to spend much with him because of his important Pope duties. Perhaps that's why Mu has such a close relationship with Kiki, because he doesn't want him to feel unloved.

Aldebaran and Shaka don't often get along because of their opposite personalities, but have a mutual agreement that if anyone hurts Mu, they will team up to show no mercy.

Has a crush on Shaka that he thinks he's doing so good at hiding… It's very obvious. Like extremely obvious, he blushes and giggles every time the Virgo saint walks by him.

The reason he wears a scarf all the time isn't just because he looks stylish (which he does), he likes to rub the fabric as a form of sensory play.

As a child he mostly just hid behind Shion and didn't really interact with others because they would make fun of him. Aldebaran was really the first person that sat down and talked to him without Shion having to force it.

The biggest sin he has ever committed is cheating at hide and seek by teleporting.

Calls Kiki "little ram" as a term of endearment.

[talvi-tuuli]

My favorite ship and a happy new year💛 Participation for:

[stsevents]

Omegaverse themed Shamutober

Pairing: Shaka x Mu

Organized by: Familia Terrón de Azúcar.

Prompts in English:

Day 1: First Meeting

Day 2: Gift

Day 3: Dominant/Recessive Alpha

Day 4: Dominant/Recessive Omega

Day 5: Jealousy

Day 6: Wolf/Animal

Day 7: Pheromones

Day 8: Courtship

Day 9: Protection Collar

Day 10: Purr

Day 11: Growling

Day 12: Fated

Day 13: Voice

Day 14: Rut/Heat

Day 15: Marriage

Day 16: Knotting/Passing on Scent

Day 17: Bite/Bond

Day 18: Smells

Day 19: Shaka

Day 20: Oveprotective Alpha

Day 21: Cravings

Day 22: Pregnancy

Day 23: Nest

Day 24: During Gestation

Day 25: Delivery

Day 26: Pups

Day 27: Mu

Day 28: Lactation

Day 29: First Time Parents

Day 30: Pampering the Pups

Day 31: First Year

[vanisketches]

Girls & girls & girls...

The process video will come out another hour!

Reblogs > Likes

[straykidsnerd255]

Hello, I hope I don't bother you, but, you could do a HC of Saint Seiya where Saga, Camus, Mu, Orphee, Shaka and Aphrodite and his S/o, who are still nothing but they are in love and suddenly a little boy becomes what I call them their parents because somehow the child traveled in time and they and their s/o take care of him while he tries to go back to his time, I don't know if I explained myself well? I hope you have an excellent day. e voglio che tu sappia che ti amo molto (´▽`ʃ♡ƪ)

You are so sweet anon! I love you too!<3 I hope that you enjoy this little HC!

Saga:

Is so confused when a little boy, out of nowhere appears and starts calling you and him mom and dad. 

“I’m sorry kid but you must be really confused.” He said patting the kid on the head. 

“I’m not! You and she are my parents in the future! I’m your son! Marihiko!” The boy called out. 

You were stone still with the biggest blush on your face

Saga was having a hard time understanding what was happening but he wouldn’t deny that he didn’t like it. 

He was gonna marry you in the future. That was his biggest dream. 

“So you are telling me that you are my child and Y/n is my wife in the future?” Saga asked. 

Marihiko nodded his head and smiled widely. Just like how you smile.

Camus:

He was staring a the boy that you were kneeling in front of trying to figure out where his parents were.

“I’m telling you, you and that tall guy are my parents! Well, in the future you are.” the boy tried to tell you.

“Sweetie, I don’t have kids and I am not even married yet. I’m not even dating anyone yet.” You said, smiling at the boy. 

“My name is Chihiro. Camus and You are my parents. I know that you two are not dating right now, but in the future a few days from now, you both start dating and then a couple of years later, you are Camus get married.” Chihiro said. 

You couldn’t believe your ears. You and Camus would get married

Camus was no better. He was so red in the face that steam flew out of his ears.

Mu:

Raising an eyebrow he would squat in front of the child. “What are you talking about? You must have hit your head or something. Are you feeling any pain?” He asked.

The boy swatted at his hand and shook his head. 

“You are both my parents. I can prove it to you. You marry Mom in 5 years.” The boy said, looking between you and Mu.

You were impressed with this kid's imagination but something told you the child was telling the truth.

You knelt down next to Mu and smiled at the boy. “Are you certain that you are our child in the distant future?” You asked. 

The boy nodded his head. 

You and Mu have never blushed as hard as you were now. 

Orphee:

He is downright confused

*confused noises*

“y/n who is this lost child?”

You giggled at him before turning to the child.

“Have you lost your parents? Can I help you find them?”

The boy would shake his head and look around.

“You and he are both my parents. In the future that is. You are my mother, he is my father” The boy said.

You and Orphee are just confused now.

Shaka:

He opened his eyes to look at the child clinging to his leg with a look of terror in his eyes.

Of course, Shaka placed a hand on the boy's head and waited for the threat to appear so he could dispose of it.

“What happened?” Your voice called out when you returned to Shaka’s side. 

“I think something spooked this poor boy and he found me to cling to,” Shaka replied. 

You quickly moved forward and scooped the boy up in your arms and smiled. “You are safe now. Where are your parents? We will take you to them.” You said.

The boy looked up at you with a raised eyebrow. “But you two are my parents.” He said. 

You and Shaka nearly tripped as you walked towards the festival going on. 

“We are your what now?” Shaka asked.

“My parents. Well, in the future that is.”The boy answered. 

Aphrodite:

He just stared at the child standing in front of him. 

The child definitely had his hair color and length, but he had your eyes, lips, and nose. This defiantly was your child. 

Y/n was just as confused. How did this child look so much like you and Aphrodite? You were never pregnant with Aphrodite’s child.

“I’m your son but from the future. I went through a portal to see what you both were like before you two got married.” 

You fainted and Aphrodite was just in shock. 

The boy shrugged his shoulders before disappearing through a portal that opened up. 

[insomnia-arts]

I finished my Milo pillow today! So after 4 years of working on this project, I am 2/3rds of the way to completing my set of self patterned and stitched Gold Saint pillows!

[roleplay-searcher]

27 years old - TMZ UTC/GMT-3 - only 20+ y/o rp partners - Please DNI, if you're younger than that.

- 3rd person, with a preference for multiple paragraphs replies. It's not novella style, but I won't do one-liners. - I'm looking for long-term partners, I love plotting out extensive threads and AUs or verses. - I want our RPs to be pretty chill, I'm not a particularly fast-replier. So, my partner shouldn't rush into replies. - Open for SFW and NSFW rps. Triggers and further boundaries will be discussed via DMs. - With all due respect, I don't interact/RP with Self-inserts or kins. - No OCs or crossovers, sorry! - You don't need to know every little detail about the source material. I'll be more than glad to try help you out refresh your memory, or even discuss things. I'm cool with canon divergences.

I'm looking for Saint Seiya/Knights of the zodiac/cavaleiros do zodíaco RPs on Discord!

I have watched the classic series, as well as the Soul of Gold OVA. Manga-wise, I've read episodes Zero and G. I'm currently keeping up with the Re-rise of Poseidon. I may be hesitant to write with muses from more recent spin-offs and movies, bc I still haven't watched them.

Characters I'm offering: Cancer Deathmask, Virgo Shaka, Taurus Aldebaran, Scorpio Milo , Gemini Kanon and Saggitarius Aiolos.

Characters I'm looking to write with: Gold saints (Happy to interact with any, but ESPECIALLY looking for: Aries Mu, Pisces Aphrodite, Aquarius Camus, Gemini Saga) > Bronze saints > Marinas generals (Chrysaor Krishna) > Silver saints > Hades spectres.

Romantic Ships: Mu/Aldebaran, Aphrodite/Deathmask, Camus/Milo, Krishna/Shaka and Saga/Shaka

These are my most wanted ships rn. I don't have any NOTPs, so I'm open to any combinations! Further elaboration in DMs!

Familial connections: Saga & Kanon and Aiolos & Aiolia

Considering how a good chunk of this serie's fans are Brazilians, I'm willing to RP in Portuguese as well!

Like this post and I will reach you out!

!!

[saintseiyaartbykerulin]

Shaka x Mu

É assim que cavaleiro de ouro queima o cosmo na ausência da Athena suas vagabunda? 😂😂 🔥✨✨✨♍️♈️✨✨✨🔥

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[floaromaxtowns]

Meme template!

I just had to do it <333

aries mu x taurus aldebaran

virgo shaka x gemini saga

EDIT - Taurus Harbinger x Aries Kiki

I've added habikiki <3

[gaysaintseiyafan]

I been on here for at least an entire month or so, I feel I should properly introduce myself or something

I'm genderfluid and prefer to go by they/them pronouns I'm autistic as well which is most likely the reason I get so passionate about my special interests. I made this blog to post and reblog about Saint Seiya because the entire franchise is one of my biggest special interests and I don't really get to share about it much since hardly anyone I know likes it !! I post alot of gay stuff because I'm very gay myself ya know.

I'm canadian BTW !!!

I enjoy watching anime and reading manga, fanfiction, listening to music, collecting dolls,figures, plushies ect. I also like drawing and even have fanart and some of my own ocs that I designed but I don't post them here mainly because I feel nobody would care to see them given that my skills are basic lol.

My favorite anime series are: OG Saint seiya including the hades ovas,Saint seiya lost canvas, saint seiya soul of gold, B't X, Shurato, ronin warriors, fuma no kojiro, yu yu hakusho,patalliro, berserk,devilman, blackjack, inuyasha, yugioh (season 0 and duel monsters), rurouni kenshin, princess princess, gravitation,brave dagwon, gundam wing, nightwalker the midnight detective,saint beast and the rose of versailles.

My favorite Saint seiya pairings: Hyoga/Shun, Shiryu /Seiya, Milo/Camus, Degel/Kardia, Mu/Shaka,Deathmask/Aphrodite, Minos/Albafica, Dohko/Shion . I like other ships but these are the ones I especially love to see fanart and fanfiction for Hyoshun is my main Ship ! Shirseiy and Camilo are close to being second.

Favorite bands: X japan, Seikima II, Malice mizer, Lareine, versailles, hizaki grace project, phantasmagoria, Syndrome, D, shazna, Kuroyume, missalina rei, madeth gray'll, baiser, Hanoi rocks and michael monroe, the sweet, Kiss, david bowie, the cure, dead or alive, gene loves jezebel, japan and david sylvian, cinderella, wasp, iron maiden, judas priest, motley crue, and many others mostly visual kei, and 80s music lol.

things I dislike: homophobia, transphobia, ableism, sexism and just bigotry in general, people who attack others for their ships its just juvenile imo, people who get mad if I dont instantly reply, that crappy netflix remake that made Shun into a girl..just no.

[ezrealsicons]

Shaka de Virgem, Saga de Gêmeos, Mu de Áries (120 x 120)

quem acha que o Saga é o cavaleiro mais forte, está muito errado. pira com essa estética e rebloga <3

[the-proship-hellhole]

Antis in the saint Seiya fandom unwittingly shipping problematic ships are so fucking common?? Just saw someone with "against pedophilia" on their bio reblog a nsfw art of shaka and Saori, when Saori is canonically 13. Also in twitter saw someone calling random shippers gross while shipping Kanon x Thetis (28 and 15)

I don't know why but I find it really funny

The one that cracks me up is if you go by the manga, Hyoga/Shun (like the most popular pairing in the series) is technically incest since they're half brothers.

And I'm surprised NO ONE'S said that Shiryu/Shunrei is incest because they were raised as siblings when Shiryu was training under Dohko.

And not to mention the super huge age gap with Shion (200+) and Mu (~20-ish?)

Also, I think Ikki/Pandora is technically getting into incest territory since Pandora is Hades' sister and Shun is Hades' vessel and Pandora wants to fuck her brother's vessel's brother.

Also, why are antis even IN the Saint Seiya fandom? Saint Seiya is based on Greek Mythology! Do you know how much problematic content is in Greek Mythology?!

~ Mod Niecest

[vanisketches]

Saintober 2023

Day 17 - Crossover

Pokemon's Gen 1 x Classic Gold saints

Read more for their types line-up and some lil thoughts

Reblogs > Likes

Did I say gen 1? I lied

Gym leaders

Mu - Dragon type - Dratini

Aldebaran - Ground type - Rhyhorn

??? - ??? - Protag may come to get his badge throughout the journey, but next to nothing is known about this gym leader or even what their specialty is.

"Deathmask" - Dark type - Spiritomb

Aiolia - Electric type - Luxray

Shaka - Psychic type - Alakazam

Dohko - Fighting type - Mienshao

Milo - Bug type - Volcarona

Elite four members

Aiolos - Fairy types - Togekiss

Shura - Steel types - Aegislash

Camus - Ice types - Walrein

Aphrodite - poison types - Roserade

Leaving the one in the role of champion as a "mystery" of sorts

[straykidsnerd255]

Hello!! I hope you are well, I can request a hc from SS where the couple of Mu, Shaka, Aphrodite, Saga, Camus and milo are like Noah Archivist from The Case Study of Vanitas, a person who is amazed by everything and is very innocent. and cheerful as a small child, but still he is strong, determined and kind-hearted and will not hesitate to protect the people he loves (and he has a grumpy cat named Murr, the cat is important!!) have a good night love you 💕

Sorry, this took so long to get out! I hope that you like this little HC and thanks for requesting!

Mu:

When he first met you, your childlike personality brought a smile to his face. 

You were curious about everything seeing as you were never able to leave your home before now.

You had a glimmer in your eyes much like a young child finding something they liked or wanted. 

However, he also noticed that you were a strong girl. He could see that when the time called for seriousness, it was like you had a switch. 

You tend to be extremely protective of him, Kiki, and Athena, and Mu’s heart flew just thinking about you protecting him

You had told Mu about your pet cat, Murr, and finally brought him to show Mu. Murr took a liking to Mu much quicker than you thought.

Shaka:

Your childlike personality made Shaka smile. He loved that about you. You were not serious all the time. 

He liked the sparkle in your eye when you saw something you had never seen before. 

The childlike wonder that drove your actions when you both were out and about. 

He loved how strong you are. He was impressed when you took an attack head-on from a Spector and didn’t even break a sweat, let alone get injured. 

You were scary strong and you were always the one to protect Athena. 

If things got out of control, Athena would send you to add the Gold Saints that needed the help. 

You brought Murr, your pet cat in one day and instantly, Murr found his home, laying in Shaka’s lap as the blonde meditated in the middle of the room.

Shaka won’t admit it, but he likes it when Murr sits or lays in his lap. Makes him smile and become stupidly giddy.

Aphrodite:

He’s got a semi-childish personality but can’t help but smile at how your childlike personality of you outshines his. 

He loves showing you things that you have never seen before and loves the expressions that you show. 

He loves watching you move around when they are in the marketplace. He loves watching how you go from one stall to the next, asking questions and taste-testing foods you have never had before. 

A smile sat pleasantly on your lips after eating at least 20 samples of foods you have never had before. 

Murr, your cat angrily meowed at you when you finally returned home. Your cat was grumpy and it was also hungry.

You finished feeding your cat and went to lay your head on Aphrodite’s lap as a yawn escaped your lips. 

“Tired already?” He asked, immediately running his fingers through your hair as you slowly fell asleep. Murr joined moments later and before long, the three of you were completely out cold.

Camus:

When he first met you, he wanted nothing to do with you. 

Camus was a very secluded man and didn’t like to be interrupted while he was working. 

You finally won him over when you showed him your cat, Murr. The fluff ball took an immediate liking to Camus and always chose him over you. 

Your childlike personality won him over as well. The smiles, the sparkles that filled your eyes. 

The laughter that could be heard from miles away, it melted his heart and made him smile.

When the time called for it, you were strong. You were there for Camus when he needed your help or when he couldn’t fend off attackers. 

You were extremely protective of Camus and the other saints, that if one scratch or one of them was harmed, you lost your mind. 

Saga:

He found your childlike personality endearing. He loved the wide, tooth-filled smiles that he got only when you were at the peak of happiness.

You were childish and it brought a certain lightness to Saga’s ever boring life.

When you showed how strong you were for the first time, it was because Saga and his brother Kanon were injured badly. 

Saga was holding his arm while Kanon leaned against him for support. 

Y/n was furious when she saw Saga and his brother in that state and went on to fend off Hade's minions. 

You had been told that Saga and Kanon tend to like cats and such so you brought Murr to the hospital to see if your cat would help them smile a bit.

Sure enough, Murr was purring loudly and Saga and Kanon were in higher spirits.

Milo:

When he met you for the first time, he wasn’t too keen on wanting to get to know you.

However, when he did get to know you, he found himself loving everything about you.  He loved the childlike personality that you had.

The fact that everything made you giggle or smile when you saw it. Or the pointing you would do when something you had never seen before was right in front of you. 

When he learned that you were strong, he wanted to see how strong you could be. 

He got that wish when Hades decided to attack. He sent all his forces towards Athena and the Gold, Bronze, and Silver saints were practically outnumbered.

You stepped in and helped fight and damn was Milo impressed with your fighting skills. 

You fended practically every minion of Hades off. 

When the fight was over and a few days had passed, you introduced Milo to your cat Murr. The fluff ball takes a liking to Milo instantly and insists he sits in Milo’s lap every minute of every day. Not that Milo minded.

[luxusartsus]

Decided to some little shipping game.

Explanations:

Ship That I Loved At First Sight

I don't know how to explain, I just love them so much, maybe it's their similar age and matching zodiacs, but they are my babies. Fight me if you don't like them!

Ship That I Initially Didn't Like

HyoShun, it's not like I was "ew, what a disgusting ship", but I found it to be quite overrated. It's still not my Top 3 ship, but I grew very fond of it

Ship That I Never Liked

The original was ship that I no longer like, but I don't have it in StS, I'm still faithful to all my ships. But I do have ships that I hate, the Top 1 being Shura x Camus for two reasons: one, they don't have chemistry or any interesting interaction to spark a wish to ship them in me. Two, if I had to choose someone to have some close relationship with Shura, it would be either Deathmask, Aphrodite, Aiolia, or even Saga or Aiolos, but Camus, really?

Favorite Popular Ship

Maybe Mu x Aldebaran is not that popular as Mu x Shaka (what is a shame, Mu and Aldebaran have a lot more chemistry for me), but I still think that this ship is quite popular, so I'm putting this one here.

Favorite Rarepair

Okay, it may be weird that I don't like Shura x Camus, but like Deathmask x Camus, but the reason is because Shura x Camus is forced as hell, mainly in SoG, where they are constantly trying to make us believe that they had some sort of friendship and that's why they were fighting, but guess what, they never had it in first place, so this conflict (and ship) falls flat. But with Deathmask x Camus, even tho they never interacted too, we got a moment of Camus mentioning Deathmask when the "Dark Trio" was heading to Cancer Temple, and this was... interesting. Plus, they would have much more chemistry with each other, Deathmask trying to make Camus be more lively and energetic, while Camus would teach Deathmask to be more calm and collected.

Controversial Ship

Tbh, I don't have it. The closest that I can think about is Hypnos x Thanatos, just to clarify, I don't ship them, but if I had to believe that some incestuous ship would happen, it would be between them because we know how Greek Gods are like with their relatives. But I won't say that I don't have the idea of Hypnos being the sub top, while Thanatos is a dom bottom 😶.

Ship That I Want To Become Canon The Most

Well, even tho I love Trash Trio, I can't deny that I see them more like just best friends (who may fuck sometimes, but still best friends), but Aiolia x Shura is actually really cute. The drama, dynamics, relationship that this couple would have is so juicy. SoG may have give us terrible, horrible ships (Shura x Camus, again; Aiolia x Lyfia; Deathmask x Helena; Dohko x Aldebaran), but Shura x Aiolia isn't one of those, I would dare to say that it's the best ship that SoG gave to us along with Deathmask x Aphrodite.

Comfort Ship

Again, Trash Trio, nothing new here.

Ship That Deserves More Attention

Ikki x Pandora actually is one of the few best straight couples from Saint Seiya. Ignoring the fact that Ikki smacked Pandora on the face, but this was because she was getting on his way to save Shun, so it's slightly understandable, what made me ship them is their final interaction: Pandora finally vents her problems to someone and trust on Ikki to avenge her real family, that Hades, Hypnos and Thanatos destroyed, in turn, we see that Ikki actually empathized with her, this short scene managed to be better developing some sort of romance (what wasn't even the focus) than a lot of love stories from media nowadays. Sadly it's overshadowed with some other ships like Ikki x Esmeralda, dude got infatuated with a girl who was identical to his younger brother, what is... ew, and Pandora x Radamanthys, poor Pandora, she deserves better than Radamanthys, I hate this bitch.

First OTP

That's easy, it was Seiya x Shun. Those two spend a lot more time together than with the other Bronzies, so it's easy for me to ship. I personaly like it more than Seiya x Shiryu or Shun x Hyoga, not saying that those two ships are bad, I like them and if you like them it's fine.

Current OTP

It has to be Saga x Aiolos, while Shion and Dohko where the kid Goldies granddads, Saga and Aiolos where their mother and father, respectively (Kanon was the uncle). I'm actually glad how popular this ship is, and pretty sure that Kurumada ships them too, otherwise all their gay interactions in Episode Zero wouldn't been happened in first place.

[hxdrostorms]

// Don't reblog this post, I don't want it being spread around!

On the subject of kinds of relationships, monogamous x polyamorous x open relationship:

TLDR: strictly monogamous - DM and Aldebaran Polyamorous: Milo (is open for the idea) and Kanon (strictly) Open relationship: Shaka

Longer answers below:

Given how I've set up Shaka to be a singleship muse, this is up for discussion and plots, so this may change depending on who I end up settling with. Shaka is kinda of in the open in regards to this subject, given his priorities in life, the last thing he would want is to be some kind of hassle for his partner. As such, he would encourage his partner to seek out anything they require from others, things that Shaka can't provide them with (such as sex). As such, the most fitting relationship dynamic for him would have to be, an open relationship. The idea that Shaka's partner seeks out other people to fulfill their needs, doesn't bother Shaka in the slightest bit.

Shaka would never try to force himself to do something, he can't really experience. And ideally, his partner wouldn't pressure him into putting him in a situation like that. So long as there is a mutual understanding of where they stand, things will work out for them.

With that said, Shaka wouldn't be open for the idea of a polyamorous relationship. He just feels like he wouldn't be all that happy, in a dynamic like that. He can barely provide for one partner, he feels like he wouldn't be able to give another person the same degree of affection and attention.

Kanon is strictly into polyamorous relationships. He wouldn't feel fulfilled or content, in a relationship that "bounds" him to a single person. He is very unlikely to settle for a single person;

As such, his dating experiences have strictly consisted of flings or one night stands. He never got to develop anything, beyond a shallow/quick thing. He just hasn't had any luck, in finding the right people to mesh well with him.

In the other end of the spectrum, Deathmask is strictly into monogamous relationships. He doesn't like at all the idea of romantically sharing the person, he commits himself to. Although, if he is drunk enough, he could be convinced to join a threeway fling. But it would never, evolve into a poly relationship.

In a similar vein, Aldebaran is also strictly monogamous. The idea of anyone flirting or even looking at his partner in a certain, deeply unsettles him. This shouldn't be mistaken with him being possessive of his partner, that's not really it. But hearing those kinds of comments from third-parties about Mu, is one easy way to get under Aldebaran's skin. And it isn't as uncommon as one may imagine, after all, not everyone is aware of their relationship.

Milo stands in a middle ground of sorts. He doesn't seem to show a bias on where he stands on the matter. This means he would be open for either a monogamous, or a polyamorous relationship. However, he wouldn't settle for an open relationship. As, he would take immense offense, at the idea of his partner seeking out others for whatever reason.